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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Mar 29, 2023 8:56:52 GMT -4
Upon investigation of the impact of the MAAC loss of exemption from CARS Part IX in Feb 2023 and consulting with 12 Wing flying operations. It is with a heavy heart the Executive of SRCF have to announce the indefinite suspension of the Shearwater Radio Control Flyers Club until such time as MAAC maybe able to negotiate a new exemption from CARS Part IX. Without an exemption the cost would be too prohibitive for the casual hobbyist. It would require all flyers to follow all CARS regulations and have the advanced pilot certificate, an annual FSOC, plus each pilot would have to undergo a flight test at their own expense (hundreds of dollars) and all aircraft inspected by Transport Canada (over 25kg) …etc, etc, etc everything necessary to fly within a controlled airspace.
The reason of this decision from 12 Wing is that on weekends the airspace around 12 wing Shearwater changes from Class D to Class E. Because of that Nav Canada/ Transport Canada then controls the airspace (weekends/holidays) when the tower is closed.
Kevin McKay Sect/Tres
Kevin Campbell President
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Post by Bill F on Mar 29, 2023 10:17:00 GMT -4
How does that song go......"killing us softly"...
Thanks for the update Kevin, looks like the Avon Club will be THE field this year.
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timsf
Bronze Member
Posts: 40
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Post by timsf on Mar 29, 2023 10:59:00 GMT -4
Does that impact flying at the gym on Sundays, and our participation in the SAM hobby show?
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Mar 29, 2023 11:05:26 GMT -4
Sunday flying will continue as long as we want. We haven't been able to tell Christine Hines at the museum yet as she is not in today but the spring hobby show we will not be attending.
Kevin
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Post by johnf on Mar 29, 2023 13:41:15 GMT -4
What a sad day it is! With all the man hours that Kevin McKay and Kevin Campbell along with many others have dedicated to this clubs existence, what kick in the butt! I want to thank those people that made that club fun to go to. I want to thank the massive amount of help and knowledge I received from flying members. What a f******g shame it has to end like this! Thanks again, it has been a great experience.
John Fennell
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Mar 29, 2023 14:15:26 GMT -4
Thanks John,
For more comments, I have posted this exact same notice on our Facebook page, just search for 'Shearwater Radio Control Flyers' when on Facebook unless you are already a member of the group.
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Post by krasherjack on Mar 30, 2023 11:27:56 GMT -4
So what's to become of the Field Equipment, Move it to storage? or Donate to another flying field?
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Mar 30, 2023 19:01:18 GMT -4
We will have to collect it all back and what belongs to PSP will be returned to them. The remainder we haven't decided yet. I'm in the process of seeing how to refund this years membership dues for those that have already paid.
Lots of logistics. The club won't be fully shutdown for months yet. I will be submitting another key access list next week as it expires in two weeks.
Kevin
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Post by johnf on Mar 31, 2023 9:41:33 GMT -4
Kevin, I am perfectly happy to have my club dues be donated to the Shearwater Museum. John F.
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Post by krasherjack on Mar 31, 2023 11:23:12 GMT -4
Yes Kevin perhaps the money can go to putting something on in the Indoor.
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Mar 31, 2023 20:44:18 GMT -4
Both Ideas are good, I haven't heard back from PSP yet on how we will get the dues back. but I'm betting it will be a cheque to each individual and that means I'll have to write up 14 individual Cheque requisitions and have them mailed to those members (from Ottawa). I'll need to know if anyone has moved within the last 2 years in order for that to happen. That is why I always wanted the yearly form filled out with payment so I could update address and contact info. IF it comes to that We'll see what happens.
Kevin
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Post by scooterboy on Apr 1, 2023 19:54:52 GMT -4
Thank you to the two Kevin's for dealing with this issue based in ridiculousness. I'm sure there is a lot of unseen & unappreciated time being spent by them. Everyone that knows me, knows that I am not a person to ruffle feathers.... however; I have to ask a few questions and make a few statements. Why is the club essentially shutting down? Some of the club members do have something under the 250 gram limit to fly while this issue gets settled. Or the club field is a perfect place for control line (I know of 4 participants for sure) or other modeling interests like freeflight, DLG or rocketry. Yes, we'd all like to fly our bigger aircraft. But maybe we should bring the club to an idle, rather than shutting it down. I can't see the situation staying like this for good. What happens if a couple of months from now we are allowed to fly again? But the clubs has been shut down, and the local car club is now using it for racing on the weekends because it is now available. Once given up, it will be very difficult to regain. Now here is what really going to make me unpopular.... shouldn't this decision have been voted upon? We are a club with a constitution, elections and the rest of it. I feel that the closure seems to be a bit premature, as there are still many ways we can legally participate in our hobby as a club at the club field. Kevin Baker (the other Kevin)
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Post by Bill F on Apr 1, 2023 20:46:54 GMT -4
quote from post #1................."It is with a heavy heart the Executive of SRCF have to announce the "indefinite suspension" of the Shearwater Radio Control Flyers Club until such time as MAAC may be able to negotiate a new exemption from CARS Part IX."
I'm sure that MAAC is trying hard to get that Exemption renewed, so I would suggest waiting several more months before pulling the plug.
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Post by johnf on Apr 2, 2023 10:26:51 GMT -4
Right now I am neutral about the whole closing of the club. I think Kevin Baker has a point on this issue. I would like to see a meeting take place so EVERY member fully understands the reasons for terminating the club. If possible, I would like to see ALL past and present executives of the club be at a general meeting. I don’t blame anybody for what has happened. But hearing from the executives to explain fully everything would be great. I plan on staying neutral until everything is fully explained. I never renewed my MAAC insurance for 2023. I have not read anything about the new rules, the tests I would need to take and the full cost to me. I doubt that I would be able to understand the test material let alone pass the test. Just an old guy’s thoughts!
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PHANTOM
Gold Member
FLYING IS ONE THING, LANDING?
Posts: 130
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Post by PHANTOM on Apr 2, 2023 11:56:05 GMT -4
I agree with Kevin Baker !!!!!
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Apr 2, 2023 12:34:08 GMT -4
Hold the phone here guys !! we are not closing!! (YET) the wording is "indefinite suspension" until such time as MAAC can negotiate another exemption and then based on what is in the exemption we may or may not have to close. This is not the Executive saying we are closing it is the law and regulations not allowing us to continue to fly! Under current Nav Canada rules we are shutdown for flying Period until several hoops are jumped thru! The club will remain in existence until MAAC and Transport Canada can get their act together and inform us as to where we stand operating within a controlled airspace. At that point a final decision will be made, in the interim I'm researching what would have to happen to shutdown the club, it won't happen overnight. I'm currently submitting another Key access list for 6 more months as it expires in two weeks.
Another point showed up this week with the email from MAAC and if anyone bothered to read the MPPD18 all members would require a ROC (radio operating certificate)to operate a radio. currently only 6 of us hold that qual. Yes I track this stuff. There are so many small details to consider before making any decision as to if we could even continue to operate.
Stand by and summer will come and we'll know more then!
Kevin
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Post by scooterboy on Apr 3, 2023 7:55:32 GMT -4
Thanks Kevin for clarifying a few things. It is highly appreciated. I just read forfeiting membership dues and returning assets etc; which would direct things in the wrong direction. I'm assuming we are able to gain access to the field to fly control line? It's an ideal spot. Thanks for this Kevin
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Post by Bill F on Apr 3, 2023 12:04:48 GMT -4
Hi Kevin,
Just picking up on your comment about members requiring a license to operate their radio....the only reference I found in that latest document was this statement...
"If radio monitoring is utilized, the rules must state whether the visual observer or the RPA pilot maintains a listening watch of the applicable aerodrome traffic frequency found in the CFS or on VNCs. Any person transmitting on a VHF radio must hold an ROC-A."
Was there another reference to a radio license that I missed..?
Bill
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Apr 3, 2023 17:58:05 GMT -4
Bill,
That is the reference to use (transmit) on a VHF radio you must hold the ROC qualification. it is a licence for life and no fee was charged by Shearwater. Shearwater tower held a course several years ago for the club, but since then some members have moved along and only 6 are left with the qualification in the club that I know about.
Kevin
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Apr 3, 2023 18:05:59 GMT -4
Thanks Kevin for clarifying a few things. It is highly appreciated. I just read forfeiting membership dues and returning assets etc; which would direct things in the wrong direction. I'm assuming we are able to gain access to the field to fly control line? It's an ideal spot. Thanks for this Kevin Kevin,
I renewed the Key access list this morning so we have access to the field until 3 Oct 2023. Control line maybe completely acceptable out there but you might be by yourself. The VHF radio would not be needed as Transport Canada does care about control line activities. I'll be picking up a plane/wing and 2 transmitters Wednesday and plan on dropping them off at the field Wednesday afternoon.
So yes we have access to the field.
The memberships and returning assets reference was me being prepared for this summer if we are forced to close. I'm a boy scout (always prepared)
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Post by Bill F on Apr 3, 2023 20:56:01 GMT -4
Thanks Kevin, you had me worried for a moment..!
Bill
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f1b
Bronze Member
Posts: 11
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Post by f1b on Apr 4, 2023 15:26:37 GMT -4
Hi Kevin's,
Being a F/F fanatic for longer than I can remember & having flown F/F at Shearwater many times with my brother Brian & John O Sullivan wondered, as Kevin's earlier post mentioned, if F/F would be possible as well as C/L.
All my models are within the 250g rule & I do have C/L models, that need some attention, but would need some assistance flying as I have not flown C/L since the sixties in the UK.
Anyway let me know.
Regards John
John Richards Dartmouth
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Post by johnosullivan on Apr 4, 2023 19:23:21 GMT -4
Looks like we may be getting back to real model aeroplanes, before they became infected with radio. Cheer up guys, we'll all wake up soon and find that all this nonsense was just a bad dream. John O'S
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Apr 5, 2023 16:57:24 GMT -4
So I have been investigating the scenario of control line, here is what I have found
I researched CARS and AIM 2020-2, I don't believe Free flight (even sub 250g) or control line would be allowed within a controlled airspace. Although not required to be registered by Transport Canada they are still bound to follow all regulations in regards to controlled airspace. Control line by definition is a tethered drone but is navigated while on the tether and therefore meets the definition of a RPAS. Which means you would require an advanced certificate and all the restrictions that come with operating within a controlled airspace.
AIM 3.2.38 Tethered Drone "When a drone is tethered to the ground in a way that prevents it from being manoeuvred or navigated, it no longer meets the definition of an RPA and the regulatory requirements contained in Part IX of the CARs no longer apply; instead, operators of tethered objects must meet the obstruction requirements of CAR Standard 621 Chapter 11.
This interpretation recognizes that drones that are prevented from being navigated along a path pose a different set of hazards from drones that are free-flying. If the RPA is being manoeuvred or navigated while on the tether, it is navigable and it once again meets the definition of an RPA, and Part IX of the CARs will apply."
To operate within controlled airspace, drone pilots need an advanced RPA pilot certificate, a drone with the appropriate manufacturer safety declaration, and the air navigation service provider authorization. Drone pilots must maintain communications with the air traffic control authority while flying.
I have registered my Horizon Hobbies Carbon Cub Last week and during the registration process it identified the plane and that it did not have a manufacturers safety declaration and can not be flown in a Class A-F controlled airspace or over people or near people. 90-95 percent of all RC planes out there on the market are in the same predicament and without our exemption probably will never fly in a controlled airspace ever again even with an advanced certificate and all the other legal paperwork just because it doesn't have the safety declaration.
Not what you wanted to hear but that is the reality of our situation.
Kevin
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Post by krmckay "Bombs away" on Apr 5, 2023 17:16:30 GMT -4
After posting the above I re-verified the quote from AIMs but did a google search this time for the most current version (2023-1) here it is. They have updated AIMs as of January 2023 to change the definition of a control line aircraft. see the red text that has been added to the reference. This shows the point we all have to make sure we have the most current copy of all references (CARS/AIMS etc.) so what this means is a control line aircraft is not a RPAS and does not need to be registered BUT without a safety declaration from the manufacture still cannot fly within a controlled airspace.
AIM 2023-1 (3.2.38 on page 450)
"This interpretation recognizes that RPAs that are prevented from being navigated along a path pose a different set of hazards from RPAs that are free-flying. If the RPA is being manoeuvred or the navigation is controlled while the RPA is on the tether, it is navigable and it once again meets the definition of an RPA, and Part IX of the CARs will apply. Control-line flying models are not designed to be navigated and do not meet the definition of an RPA."
Kevin
Here is the website for AIM
Changes took effect 23 March 2023....Just 2 weeks ago
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